Posts by Chris Hannover

44

We talk a lot about conditional friends on here

by cappytan in

jw
friends

so, when people post about being shunned by their friends, i've heard several posters say things like, "their friendship is conditional.

real friendships aren't conditional.".

i'm sorry, but that just isn't really true.. if you and i were friends, there are conditions.

Chris Hannover

If you care about other people, all your love & friendship will be conditional. My friendship is based on me observing, identifying, & appreciating the other person based on their personality, not about how I wish to see them.

Unconditional friendship requires you not acknowledge the other person's personality and behavior at all. Since you're refusing to see them for who they are, on what is your "friendship" based? Your friendship cannot be based the person in front of you. You have ignored that person entirely and replaced them with your own wishful thinking about people in general.

Unconditional friendship is no more than narcissism. What you want to believe is more important than the actual person.

If someone calls me a friend based on their generic opinions of all people, while completely ignoring me as I am, they can keep it. That kind of friendship sounds terribly empty & one-sided. If they're indifferent to my personality and refuse to distinguish me from any other random person, how can you call me friend? I would just be another blank space for them to project their own beliefs upon.

When I noticed that all my JW friends never took other's personality & individuality into consideration in the relationship, I realized I never had any true JW friends.

43

What are the things that wake people up from the Watchtower Corporation?

by punkofnice in

when i became an elder i saw the dark side.

a side i previously believed couldn't possibly exist in the one true religion of the happiest people on earth.. then they rolled out 'overlapping generations(tm)' and that was the last straw.. all my life i had doubts but surpressed them thinking i was at fault and not the cult leaders.. it seems more likely that now the governing body are parading around like popes, wearing their expensive jewellery, that this will nauseate even dyed in the wool jws.. i wonder if the wake up can be condensed into main categories?.

1. experiencing the cruel handling of matters by the wbt$ reps.. 2. crazy doctrine (eg.

Chris Hannover

punkofnice - What are the things that wake people up from the Watchtower Corporation?"

Really, there is only one thing that makes anyone wake up from delusion: personal honesty.

All the beliefs & teachings are just smoke & mirrors designed to help the person remain dishonest & feeling special, while also remaining socially acceptable (or socially rebellious if that serves their goals).

22

after 2 years, getting the courage to read COC. but is is still really relevant?

by nowwhat? in

if so why?

Chris Hannover

Read the book & decide if its relevant for yourself.

If it has taken you 2 years to get enough courage to read a book & you still need help, you're clearly not ready to be free from someone telling you what to think, believe, and feel.

When you are emotionally ready, you will be able to read books on your own without support.

114

Why do religious people make claims and then refuse to back them up?

by Viviane in

several times over the past few months i have had conversations, both here and in real life, with religious people making all sorts of interesting and conflicting claims.

i like to know how things work, so generally i will ask questions to net out what i am being told and see if it can be explained and make sense.. for instance, if someone said 2+2=4 and i asked how, there are a variety of ways that could be shown to me, a number line, physical objects being put together, counting on fingers and toes, etc.

indeed, in my personal life, i often have to explain how certain technologies work, sometimes planned, sometimes off the cuff, from a variety of group sizes to a varying degree of technical expertise.

Chris Hannover

Viviane: For instance, if someone said 2+2=4...
Why can't religious people simply say "I don't know"? What is wrong with that level of honesty?

Most people consider themselves honest as long as they refuse to acknowledge they're lying. Its the admission of being wrong that they consider dishonest.

In the same way, as long as they never admit they're being cruel, they consider themselves loving.

56

Question for atheists and nonbelievers

by pressman in

i profess to teach the truth to you all and get you to all to think and believe.

believing in christ through his words and not through evil religious cults, like hoj and jw, can and will save you.

do you all realize that every time you are victorious and receive something of value through your hard work and sweat, it was our holy god who blessed you.

Chris Hannover

If all the believers cant agree on a single truth, why should the non-believers listen?

Once all the believers follow one faith, I will listen to what they decided.

Until then, it just feels like random crazy people screaming their version of madness.

10

How a Christian Converts an Atheist

by Magwitch in

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2015/04/13/how-christians-think-they-can-convert-atheists-according-to-wikihow/.

this article is pure pleasure.

i thought at first it was a joke, but apparently not.

Chris Hannover

Pope Stephen Fry blesses Jesus Toast and bacon.

75

Having Faith in the Bible

by william draper in

i know many on here have lost faith in the bible , is it possible that is because ones do not have the right perspective regarding it .

we have usually been taught by bad teachers , or ignorant .

i believe if we take an honest look at the bible , we will see that it gives us the best answers to crucial matters , it gives us some amount of bearings ( understanding ) , which without having such knowledge we would all be more like walking zombies in amanner of speaking , we would be lacking hope in something better , for surely something better is to come , how can we be sure , .

Chris Hannover

If you stand before GOD and point your finger at him , well that is between you and God .

I will stand before all men and all gods and say killing children is wrong.

I wouldn't want to put myself in such a position ,

Since you refuse to acknowledge that killing children is wrong in all circumstance, we will never agree.

Because I value humanity and have natural empathy, I will never accept or respect your morally empty rantings.

75

Having Faith in the Bible

by william draper in

i know many on here have lost faith in the bible , is it possible that is because ones do not have the right perspective regarding it .

we have usually been taught by bad teachers , or ignorant .

i believe if we take an honest look at the bible , we will see that it gives us the best answers to crucial matters , it gives us some amount of bearings ( understanding ) , which without having such knowledge we would all be more like walking zombies in amanner of speaking , we would be lacking hope in something better , for surely something better is to come , how can we be sure , .

Chris Hannover

william draper: women and male children were taken captive and later killed under the order of Moses , in the previous chapter it speaks of these people as having acted wickedly against the Israelites

Ok, so your personal morality says killing children is ethical under certain conditions. For example, if their parents don't agree with you.

I consider that a morally vulgar position. My personal morality says killing children is wrong under all circumstances.

the worship of Baal involved child sacrifice I believe

So your religion killing children is justified as long as their religion killed children first.

Wouldn't a good, loving god simply not kill the children? Wouldn't a decent person not kill the children?

75

Having Faith in the Bible

by william draper in

i know many on here have lost faith in the bible , is it possible that is because ones do not have the right perspective regarding it .

we have usually been taught by bad teachers , or ignorant .

i believe if we take an honest look at the bible , we will see that it gives us the best answers to crucial matters , it gives us some amount of bearings ( understanding ) , which without having such knowledge we would all be more like walking zombies in amanner of speaking , we would be lacking hope in something better , for surely something better is to come , how can we be sure , .

Chris Hannover

Decent people are horrified at what the Bible calls ethics.

Narcissist use the Bible as imaginary authority.

75

Having Faith in the Bible

by william draper in

i know many on here have lost faith in the bible , is it possible that is because ones do not have the right perspective regarding it .

we have usually been taught by bad teachers , or ignorant .

i believe if we take an honest look at the bible , we will see that it gives us the best answers to crucial matters , it gives us some amount of bearings ( understanding ) , which without having such knowledge we would all be more like walking zombies in amanner of speaking , we would be lacking hope in something better , for surely something better is to come , how can we be sure , .

Chris Hannover

Draper's point is not about the legitimacy or virtue of the Bible. Draper's point is that we were fooled by false teachers.

In the first sentences of the OP, he states that "ones do not have the right perspective" and "We have usually been taught by bad teachers , or ignorant."

He is discussing the quality of the teachers, not the validity of the Bible.

This thread is just Draper claiming to be the true teacher and that we should listen to Draper. He made the point (intentionally or unintentionally) that we were fooled by false teachers and that he can lead us to the truth about the Bible.

It all seems too familiar.